Women With Traits of BPD – Why Did She Lie?
In this blog post we are going to be addressing the coping behavior of lying and why women with traits of BPD or borderline personality disorder so often engage in it. Although lying is not part of the criteria for diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, many romantic partners of women with traits of BPD report that lying was a major component of their behavior pattern.
This pattern of lying is not just limited to those with the diagnosis of BPD. So for this blog post we will be referring to all women who engage in behaviors associated with BPD, whether or not their behavior is extreme enough to qualify for the diagnosis.
In the first part of this blog post we are going to address three common types of lies that women with traits of BPD often engage in with their romantic partners:
1. A partner who chronically or compulsively lies and is completely aware of it.
2. A partner who is lying for revenge and is aware that she is lying but believes
you deserve it.
3. A partner who is not lying at all, but truly believes the lies she is telling.
Once we have covered these three basic categories of lies we will take a look at the motivations behind each of these types of lying. We will then explore a few common situations in which women with traits of BPD tend to lie so you can more easily identify what kind of lying your partner may have been engaging in and what motivated those lies.
Here are the scenarios which we will be addressing to make it easier to apply these concepts to your relationship:
Lying to cover up bad behavior
Lying to make others look bad
Lying to make you look bad
Lying to make themselves look good
Lying to get out of responsibilities
Lying to be perceived as a victimized
Lying to get attention
Lying to launch a smear campaign
Let’s begin our investigation into the motivations behind BPD lying by exploring the first category of lying, the kind that the liar has full awareness of. We are going to examine what some people refer to as compulsive lying or cover-up lying. This form of lying is a coping mechanism that many people use to ward off feelings of shame and humiliation over how others will see them or how they may see themselves.
Because partners of women with traits of BPD may have a very hard time accepting that their partner could be lying to them purposely in ways that cause them great pain and distress, we will spend a little more time addressing compulsive lying than we will for the remaining two categories.
The Cover-up or Compulsive Liar
Compulsive lying is a habit of convenience that over time can turn into a full-blown addiction. One of the unusual components of compulsive lying is that unlike many other addictive behavior patterns, the person who lies compulsively will usually be fully aware that they have a problem.
Another unusual aspect of compulsive lying is that people who lie compulsively often believe that since no one ever calls them on their lying, that everyone around them actually believes the lies. Because liars are so rarely confronted, they may interpret acceptance of their lies as sign that they are highly skilled at fooling others.
Their erroneous assumption that those around them believe their lies may cause them to continue lying indefinitely, feeling that if people found out the extent to which they had been fooled they would be permanently ostracized. This need to keep their secret at any cost will often drive them to defend their lies even when someone does confront them, no matter how irrefutable the evidence may be.
Compulsive or cover-up lying could be considered an extreme coping mechanism. It cannot physically destroy a person as drugs, alcohol or risky behavior might. But when people cross the line into lying chronically, they run the risk of destroying all trust and credibility with those around them.
Because trust is the core foundation of every kind of relationship we might enter into, a person who lies for personal gain is essentially voiding any social agreements they may have entered into. Although lying is highly effective way to get out of shameful or embarrassing situations, we will find that the social consequences of chronic lying are so severe that few people are willing to risk engaging in it.
But there is a good reason that this extreme coping mechanism is surprisingly common among women with traits of BPD. Because these women have a very limited understanding of the kind of trust it takes to be in a romantic relationship, they may fail to recognize the grave risk in crossing that line.
Let’s now take a look at exactly why cover-up or compulsive liars lie.
What Compulsive Liars Get Out of it
When compulsive liars lie, they do it in order to protect their self-image. Chronic liars generally do not feel safe when others see who they really are. They have a very weak sense self-esteem which causes them to feel threatened by the even the thought of negative judgment from others.
Women with traits of BPD are naturally highly over-sensitive to negative judgment of others. Because of this sensitivity, they usually find themselves feeling threatened by what their relationship partner might think of them. This uncomfortable imbalance of power can cause a woman with traits of BPD to feel inferior and can very easily trigger feelings low self-esteem.
If she is not educated about her unique sensitivity to negative judgment and taught skills to compensate for caring too much about what others think, she is very likely to use coping mechanisms to protect her self-image. Lying is a fast-acting antidote for feelings of guilt, shame and humiliation. It is also a highly effective way to maintain ultimate control over her self-image.
Compulsive lying is not as well-publicized as other common addictive coping behaviors such as gambling, sex, alcohol and drugs. Yet it has all the same hallmarks.
Most compulsive liars describe the beginning stages of their lying as fairly mild and harmless.
They usually report that they started to lie in order to bolster others’ impression of them. They soon find that lying begins to happen automatically, and then in the final stages they will discover they are helpless to stop.
Just like any other addictive behavior, in time, the original relief gained from the behavior will lessen. The need to lie will increase over time until many of them find themselves compulsively lying even when there is no possible benefit to them.
There are many compounded problems that develop for cover-up liars. Lies tend to call for other lies either to bolster the lie or to ensure secrecy. Cover-up liars may eventually have entire networks of lies that must be maintained. Some chronic liars report that the difference between a lie and the truth at some point begins to blur. Others state that eventually their lies begin to seem like the truth, and the truth may feel like a lie.
Let’s now take a look at exactly why cover-up lying is so effective and how it is that these chronic liars can get away with lying for decades without ever being publicly exposed.
Why Cover-up Lying Works
The reason that chronic lying is an extremely effective way to avoid consequences, responsibility, humiliation, embarrassment and any other uncomfortable emotion is simple. Lying for personal gain is against the social rules of every culture. Not only is it against the social rules, it carries so much social stigma that very few among us are willing to confront an individual who engages in it.
Being lied to for personal gain by people who we trust is one of the most insulting actions that can be taken against us. Because most people hate liars, any admission that we don’t believe someone who is lying will hold within it a statement of extreme distaste or even disgust.
Accusing someone of lying is such a highly-charged allegation, that few people ever call a compulsive liar’s bluff. This gives them a free pass to edit reality in any way it suits them indefinitely.
Let’s now take a look at the role of cover-up or compulsive lying in a relationship with a woman with traits of BPD.
Compulsive Lying and BPD
The way a woman with traits of BPD engages in cover-up lying is no different than a cover-up liar who does not possess these traits. For the most part she will be aware and conscious of all of her lies. Occasionally she may believe her lies, but she will probably have to pump herself up emotionally in order to do so. And like all compulsive liars, although conscious and aware of her lies, if confronted, she will deny that she was lying.
The most effective way to tell if a romantic partner was using compulsive or cover-up lying is through how regularly it happened. Lying in order to keep one’s self-image untarnished can be a full-time job. Most women with traits of BPD who engage in cover-up lying will lie continually, about small things, big things, and everything in between.
Let’s now move on to our second category, lying for revenge.
Lying For Revenge
Lying for revenge is by no means limited to women with traits of BPD. Revenge lying is a common coping mechanism for many men and women who feel betrayed and humiliated after a romantic breakup. But revenge lying is a hallmark of BPD behavior that can even occur while a relationship is still going on. And revenge lying from a woman with traits of BPD after a breakup can be extreme.
When women with traits of BPD use lying for revenge they are purposefully lying and they know they are lying. But they are lying because they honestly believe in that moment that their partner deserves to be punished for making them hurt.
To put it simply, revenge lying is a quick and easy way to inflict the kind of pain that will ease the sting of her humiliation. Although a woman with traits of BPD may not believe any of the false allegations she makes to hurt him, she will believe that she is fully justified to lie for revenge.
Let’s now take a moment to examine why a woman with traits of BPD may believe that even the most innocent and loving partner is deserving of revenge. We are going to look at a unique characteristic of this disorder. This characteristic is present in women with both light and extreme traits of BPD.
The unique characteristic which sets women with BPD apart from the average person who lies for revenge is a tendency to become emotionally dysregulated. Emotional dysregulation is the term that is used to describe the irrational state we all get into when our emotions run too high. But although we have all experienced being irrational while in a state of high emotions at some point in our lifetime, most of us experience this delusional state of upset only occasionally.
But women with traits of BPD may get dysregulated very easily and may spend a good deal of their waking life in a dysregulated state. Women with traits of BPD do not need an outside event to trigger emotional dysregulation the way most people do. They can manufacture this state from their imagination. This means that a woman with traits of BPD may at any point become irrationally convinced that you deserve punishment as revenge for the pain she believes you have caused.
And because women with these traits will not have built a foundation of trust within their relationship, it is very easy for them to imagine their partner as an enemy. Although most of us would be very hesitant to cross that line, women with traits of BPD, having never established trust in the first place, will easily cross back and forth to suit their mood. And once she has crossed that enemy line she will not hesitate to use lies to hurt you.
Her emotionally dysregulated state may cause her to believe that you are out to hurt or betray her when you are not. But the slanderous comments she makes about your character will be purposeful lies. For instance, if she believes you are planning to cheat on her, she may want to emasculate you as punishment for your bad intentions. She will be aware of her lies, but she will honestly believe that you deserve the false accusation.
The way to identify whether your romantic partner was engaging in revenge lying is by figuring out whether her lies seemed to be punishing in nature. Women with traits of BPD who appear to enjoy their partner’s suffering are often engaging in revenge lying. Body language that expresses disgust, contempt or condemnation accompanying a lie are usually signs of revenge lying.
There is occasionally some overlap between cover-up lying and revenge lying, and some women switch back and forth between the two. A good way to distinguish between cover-up and revenge lying is through your partner’s demeanor. Cover-up lying is usually done without too much malice. A cover-up liar may be over-dramatic, but she will usually not be vicious.
Let’s now take a look at lies made in what we could call an innocent context. These kinds of lies are unusual in people who do not suffer from emotional dysregulation and are therefore a little bit harder to identify.
Innocent Lying
Innocent lying or lies that the woman with BPD believes, usually occur when she is in a state of light paranoia, often the beginning stages of emotional dysregulation. In this state of mind she will honestly believe that her partner is capable of cheating on her or that he may not care about her needs.
Innocent lying can occur when a woman is only slightly dysregulated, in other words, not yet fully believing that her feelings are facts. Because she is still in the fear stage she will not be out for revenge. She will merely be mistakenly believing that her feelings must have been caused by a real event.
Innocent lying is a common in women who have very light traits of BPD. In this state she will truly believe that all of the pain and humiliation and fear she is experiencing is due to her partner’s lack of support, care or commitment to her. She may innocently accuse him of negative character defects such as not loving her, not standing by her. She may accuse him of trying to make her feel bad or making her feel humiliated. But innocent false accusations are usually accompanied by fear, panic or sadness as opposed to anger or malice.
A good way to identify whether your partner was innocently accusing you is if there was an authentic quality to her accusations. In other words she would have seemed to honestly believe that you let her down, disappointed her or did not support her. She may accuse you of flirting with other women, but she will seem more panicked or hurt by it as opposed to sarcastic or vengeful.
We might call this form of innocent lying misinterpretation. Although it can be very stressful for a romantic partner, this form of lying is not as damaging to a relationship as cover-up lying or revenge lying.
There is one exception to the rule when it comes to innocent lying. There are some instances when a woman with extreme traits of BPD may become so emotionally dysregulated that she enters a truly irrational state where she may appear delusional in what she is saying or doing. Although it’s very hard to interpret what may be going on in the mind of someone in this extreme state, we can assume that in those moments the woman does believe any lies she may be telling.
Now that you have a clearer understanding of the three different types of lying that women with BPD engage in, let’s take a look at some typical scenarios where each of these types of lying occurs so you can more easily identify the types of lies that may have taken place in your relationship.
Lying to Cover Up Bad Behavior-Compulsive Lying
Lying to cover up bad behavior is usually associated with compulsive lying. Men who are in relationships with women with traits of BPD who lie compulsively often become confused once they find out their partner has traits of BPD. They may tell themselves that their partners are blocking out their lying because the pain they are covering up is so unbearable or that they believe their own cover-up lies. This is understandable. Because of the way compulsive liars are perceived in society, not many partners are eager to pin that label on a loved on.
The truth is, although women with traits of BPD may have some elements of amnesia and they may also have psychological reasons for covering up their tracks, they are usually very well aware of the lies they tell to cover up bad behavior. Not having a clear awareness of how severe the boundary violation of lying for self-gain is in a relationship, they may not experience the same level of inhibition that most people naturally possess.
Let’s now turn to another common scenario for women with traits of BPD who lie to their romantic partners.
Lying To Make Others Look Bad-Compulsive Lying
When a woman with traits of BPD lies to make others look bad, she is engaging in a form of bullying. She is feeling low in self-worth and wanting to make someone else seem even lower than she is. This is a form of lying that anyone with low self esteem may engage in.
The woman with traits of BPD uses this tactic in the same way those without these traits use it. Most of the time when she lies to make others feel bad she will be using compulsive or cover-up lying. In other words she will be aware and conscious that she is lying.
However, there is a certain amount of pumping of emotions that can go along with lying to make others feel bad that helps make the put-downs seem more realistic. And this can sometimes make them feel like the lie is true, at least in the moment.
Lying to Make You Look Bad-Revenge Lying
Lying to make you look bad is usually a form of revenge lying. Women with traits of BPD have a very hard time identifying their resentments towards their partners and will often be holding onto several dozen at a time. You may be punished now for a resentment from the past that you have never been told about.
In other words, your partner may lie about something in the present in order to have an excuse to make you pay for something she believes you did in the past. As with all other forms of revenge lying, she will know she is lying, but she will honestly believe that you have done something to deserve the punishment.
There can be some cross-over with cover-up lying when a partner with traits of BPD tries to make you look bad. If lying to make you look bad can keep the pressure, guilt or blame off of her she may consciously lie for personal gain.
The way to distinguish between these two types of lying is by determining whether she seemed angry, vengeful or sarcastic in her demeanor. A malicious tone usually points to revenge lying. If there seems to be a dramatic quality to the lie or an exaggeration in tone or gestures it is probably a cover-up lie.
Lying To Make Themselves Look Good-Compulsive Lying
Lying to make themselves look good is usually a form of compulsive lying or cover-up lying that women with traits of BPD use to hide a part of their self-image they are not comfortable with others seeing. This type of lying is conscious and purposeful.
However, similar to lying to make others look bad, a woman with traits of BPD may pump herself up emotionally to more easily carry off the lie. And this emotional pumping may in some instances cause her to at least temporarily believe her own lies.
Lying To Get Out of Responsibilities-Innocent Lying
Lying to get out of responsibilities is often a form of innocent lying where the woman believes her lies are true. Women with traits of BPD tend to have a great deal of fear around responsibilities. Their defenses often kick in to protect them from looking weak. The form these defenses usually take are little thoughts from the subconscious mind fed into the conscious mind that give justifications for her to avoid a responsibility.
She will usually believe these justifications, flimsy as they may be. When she says she feels sick to get out of a responsibility, she will probably be convinced she is too sick to participate. She will actually believe she is too overwhelmed, too tired, too underqualified, too overqualified, or any other excuse her she uses to get out of her obligations.
There can be some cross-over between innocent lying and compulsive lying when it comes to avoiding responsibilities. If she is using innocent lying to avoid a responsibility, it will be because she is feeling too much shame to admit to herself that she is afraid.
If a woman with traits of BPD uses compulsive lying to get out of a responsibility, she will not be experiencing fear of responsibility. At that time she will be purposely manipulating those around her to avoid doing something she simply does not feel like doing.
The way to tell if a partner believes her justifications that excuse her from her responsibilities or if she is consciously lying to get out of something she doesn’t want to do is to examine her demeanor. If she seems honestly upset, sad, guilty or sorry that she can’t fulfill her responsibilities, she will probably believe her lies or be innocently lying.
If she is defensive, acts like you don’t deserve an explanation, blames you in some way for her inability to take responsibility, or seems dismissive or angry when she offers excuses, she will probably be using compulsive lying which she will be conscious of.
Lying to Be Perceived as a Victim-Innocent or Compulsive Lying
Lying in order to seem like a victim is often an innocent lie or a case where she believes her own lie. Victimhood gives women with traits of BPD great overall relief from their underlying shame around being out of control. In order to avoid this shame, her subconscious mind may step in to convince her that she is a victim in her own life.
However, cross-over often occurs with compulsive lying. Many times the tone of voice can be a give-away that a person crying victim is lying and knows it. Over-dramatic intonation will point to compulsive or cover-up lying as will exaggeration of body language.
Because victim identification comes so naturally to women with traits of BPD, this is one area where you may not be able to tell the difference between innocent and conscious lying. Women with BPD can often rival professional actresses when it comes to playing this particular role.
Lying To Get Attention-Innocent Lying or Cover-up Lying
When women with traits of BPD lie to get attention they are usually using compulsive lying. However, if a woman with traits of BPD tries to get your attention in a direct way, even if it is by telling you that you aren’t giving her enough attention when you know you are, she may be using innocent lying and will believe her lies.
If she creates a scene which demands your attention in some way other than telling you outright that attention from you is her goal, she will most likely be using compulsive lying to fabricate a stronger need for attention than is necessary. Over-dramatic behavior will usually point to compulsive lying. Honest upset will be more likely related to innocent lying where she actually believes you haven’t been paying attention to her.
Let’s finish up with one of the most severe forms of destructive behaviors that women with traits of BPD engage in.
Smear Campaigns – Revenge Lying and Innocent Lying
A smear campaign is a term that is often used to describe attempts to destroy the reputation of a partner who has caused them pain due to a breakup. Smear campaigns can be used to destroy the personal, community or professional reputation of a romantic partner. This very destructive behavior pattern is common, particularly after breakups, even among women with light traits of BPD.
The way they go about destroying their partner’s reputation is by contacting the people in that person’s life and spreading damaging lies about them. This form of revenge lying relies on eye-for-an-eye reasoning that ensures the partner of the woman with traits of BPD feels as much or more pain as the woman herself felt. Smear campaigns can be launched even when the woman instigated the breakup and can also occur when the smeared partner is completely innocent of wrongdoing in the relationship.
Smear campaigns consists of a combination of both intentional and innocent lying. She will be intentionally lying when she falsely accuses him. But she will believe her own lies about what he did to deserve being lied about.
There is one exception to this rule. Smear campaigns are occasionally launched as part of cover-up lying when a woman with traits of BPD is afraid that her partner will expose her behavior during the relationship within their circle of friends. She will be lying in order to shift the negative focus on her partner so people are less likely to believe his allegations against her.
You should by now have a clear understanding of what motivates women with BPD to lie. Because lying is such a disturbing violation of trust it can be painful to revisit old memories with these new concepts in mind. However, I believe you will find that using these distinctions to fit some remaining pieces of the puzzle together may provide the closure necessary to put this traumatic experience behind you.
Related Posts:
BPD and the Nice Guy Personality Type
Did Your Ex-Girlfriend Have Traits Of Borderline Personality Disorder?
Identifying Traits of BPD In Women Before Relationship Commitment
Romantic Idealization And Devaluation In Women With Traits of BPD
Women With Traits of BPD – Why Men Stay
Did Your Ex-Girlfriend Have Traits of BPD: How to Let Go of the Good Times
Did Your Ex-Girlfriend Have Traits of BPD-The Defense Mechanism of Projection
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Thank you for the beacon in the night fog !
Thank you Joanna
The Light Keeper
Thank you so much for your support.
Great write up….a clear analysis of my relationship experience right on point…Good one Joanna.
I’m so glad to hear it was helpful.
Dear Joanna,
Excellent work. Really love your work. To me personally, your works is the ultimate masterpiece of bringing a greater understanding of how women can behave and think, and how to deal with them to love them better.
I have one question in regards to this specific blog entry. Can these women who have BPD, or have BPD also intentionally lie, even when there is no involvement of romance? It’s a simple question, but I truly have a need to recieve your professional answer.
Thank you and please continue the good work you are doing.
Sammey, thanks for your very kind words! The answer to your question is women with traits of BPD don’t exclusively lie in their relationships. If a woman with traits of BPD is intentionally lying inside of her relationship on a regular basis, she probably is lying in other types of relationships as well.
Hi Joanna
I read your article it was very helpful
I’ve basically have read every article on bdp and it scares me of what I read
But I keep going back
She’s been gone a week now
She has said that she has blocked me and will never contact me again
Even tho two weeks ago she said of how much she loves me and she doesn’t want to go thru life without me
The crazy thing is I don’t know what I did wrong and she just moves along like nothing happens
I don’t know how to let these feelings go even tho personally I’m the one who keeps getting trashed by her
A family member told me once that you can’t fix crazy
Who’s the crazy one ?
Roger, the behavior does make sense once you understand what is motivating them. So you could take a look through my other blog posts to find out why she behaved that way, but the short answer is nothing you did or said had anything to do with her behavior towards you. In fact, and she will act the same way with the next person in line after you. Your best plan of action is to realize that you have been released from this relationship before too much damage was done and to try to find someone who is healthy and capable of intimacy the next time.
Hi, Joanna:
Thank you for this incredibly insightful article about compulsive lying. I just discovered your blog posts about BPD, and finished reading a few. Of all the material out there, yours is the most accessible and accurate. Thank you.
I’ve been in a relationship on and off again with a woman who has been diagnosed with BPD. It is a complicated relationship, in that it began very romantically, and over the years (and now), mostly just affectionate, with the hope that it may evolve to FT commitment. She is delaying the commitment (possible marriage) until she finishes training and jump-starts a career, later in life.
I discovered, quite painfully, that all the while I’ve known her, she’s maintained other relationships, some romantic. She confessed this to me about a year ago, but not to its full extent. And she assured me that it had stopped, especially with a former boyfriend.
Now, I discover (without her knowing) that she continues to see him regularly, and demonstrates loving affection to him, too. She will lie to my face about where she is going, or who she is seeing, just to see him. Above all else in dealing with a partner with BPD, the compulsive lying and cover up is the worst. I simply do not know how to confront her about it. When I raised it in the past, she gets extremely defensive and denies everything, when I know the opposite. The evidence is there, but more through my snooping around, something I’m not proud of either.
What do I do, and what can others in my situation do? It is crushing, as I love her so deeply. And leaving her will be traumatic, as you’ve written about. Do I confront her, a high-stakes accusation? Do I say nothing, but begin to make my departure from the relationship because there is no trust? It is lying of covering up, and leading me on (or worse, using me for all I give her), while still seeking affection or more from her previous boyfriend. Help! And thanks.
Rob
Rob, I’m sorry to hear about your situation, as this is one of the most painful aspects of this type of relationship. I think the most important thing is to recognize that she is not like you and that you need to try to keep from projecting your perspective in terms of morals and ethics onto her. I imagine that you believe in fairness and telling the truth, but your partner does not have an understanding of how to be fair or tell the truth. In other words, you do not owe this woman anything in terms of an explanation for you leaving, and she knows this very well.
I would suggest you use whatever reason you feel will allow you to leave the relationship with the least drama or repercussions. Letting her know that you have come to realize she isn’t the right person for you and that you are going to need some alone time in order to heal from the breakup may work fairly well. Then if possible you would need to stretch out that alone time indefinitely, telling her if she contacts you that you are still in an emotionally vulnerable place.
This allows you the space you will need to recover, which I know you are dreading and which won’t be easy. A lot of men in your situation find an experienced therapist very useful to help them navigate through the logistics of this type of breakup. It can also be useful to have a safe space to examine why your perspective on her did not change drastically when you found out she had betrayed you all these years. I wish there was an easier way out of this one.
I can not say enough about how much this blog helped me.
I had this text book relationship last year, and I am still hurting.
Thank you for understanding and helping me realize the condition.
The heartbreak. The pain. The hostility. The destruction.
Thank you so much.
Regards,
Nice Guy
So glad to hear that my blog helped. I know how difficult it can be to recover from one of these relationships.
Hi Joanna,
I really appreciate these articles and they are extremely helpful. Your posts are the only ones I’ve found (in 5 years) that really explain the dynamic of BPD traits and Niceguy, and I can finally see closure in the distance. I’m fairly certain I’m 100% guilty of being the Niceguy (or was), but the smear campaign my EX executed to all our mutual friends, turned my world upside down. Everyone believed her, and it basically said, “he’s super abusive and extremely jealous and I had to leave him”. Because I’m a nice guy, I let this in…’well, when she flirted with other men, I was jealous…when she got super needy every second it drove me crazy and I got angry…when she treated me like crap in public it provoked me and I got angry…wow, maybe I am the screwed up one?!’ I’ve found the smear campaign to be the hardest part to recover from. 1. Because I’m open to criticism and I’m willing to look at, evaluate, and improve my behavior. 2. It’s difficult to have multiple people you love(d) telling you you’re the opposite of what you know you are. 3. There is something extremely confusing and crazy making about being accused of the abuse you are a victim of. It even reads confusing and I feel a litttle guilty sharing this, like I’m confusing everyone, but I’m desperate to move on from this confusion and frustration and need help. I’m 5 years removed from contact and the smear campaign still has me going to sleep, like, “Was it her? Or, was it me?!” When I read these articles, I know I’m a Niceguy and feel optimistic, but then the questions or fear return and I wonder. I think I might wonder just because I’m a Niceguy, but I don’t know, haha. Thanks in advance, any advise would help.
Smeard, You are experiencing a very common and unfortunate reaction to a breakup with a woman with traits of BPD. It is necessary in order to recover from one of these breakups to untangle the confusion of who is to blame since these individuals commonly accuse their partners of exactly the negative behaviors they were engaging in.
The nice guy type has a much more difficult time recovering than they average person. The average person is naturally more defensive than the nice guy type because for them misbehavior in a relationship is expected. They are more easily able to push away negative accusations because they are not as horrified by the idea that they have behaved badly.
A nice guy type, on the other hand, naturally capable of monitoring and controlling their negative impulses is appalled at the idea that they could behave badly. They do not recognize that most people lack their ability to be control themselves and imagine everyone else is as judgmental of them as they are of themselves. They forget that most people tend to take accusations from those who have just left a relationship with a grain of salt.
The nice guy type feels compelled to exonerate themselves to anyone who might doubt their good moral standing. Because they are so scrupulous in monitoring their behavior, they will always double-check to make sure they don’t have a blind spot. They discipline themselves to always be open to the possibility that they have done something wrong. This compulsive need can keep them in an endless cycle of self-examination.
Your options are very tough. You can learn to care less about what others think and cut your losses and move on with your life. This is a choice many ex partners make. But because it may entail dropping a set of friends and starting a new one, it can be an unthinkable choice for many nice guy types.
Another option may be to try to approach those who have been turned against you by very honestly admitting to your nice guy tendencies and explaining that you are extremely oversensitive to the idea of anyone thinking you could do anything like what you are accused of and explaining that you are what others might consider obsessed with always acting ethically even in your relationships. You might be able to give specific details of your experience of conflict in the relationship. Hopefully you could get at least one person to believe you.
But there are no easy answers. So many partners have their lives absolutely decimated by these individuals. Many have to change jobs, move to different cities and wait many years until their partners true colors shine through to those who have turned against them due to false allegations.
Thanks Joanna,
I actually cut my losses years ago, right after the breakup. I tried to explain myself a couple times, but it was impossible to get through to anyone she had talked to. I remember these people approached me defensively, and it was almost as if they knew what I was going to say. It was horrible, so I understand when you say, there are no easy answers. Regardless, of ending these friendships, my self-examination remained and still does a little bit. I guess this is the Niceguy nature backfiring to some degree, because we pride ourselves on our honesty, our humility, our willingness to take responsibility and our openness to change. It’s easy to see how opposite the qualities are between the Niceguy and woman with traits of BPD too. Each person lacks, almost completely, the gifts of the other. I don’t really want to learn dishonesty, vanity, stubbornness and manipulation, but I can see how I need to develop qualities to move more toward the center of the spectrum, toward the “average” person, if nothing else, to avoid attracting a woman like this in the future. I think I’ve been trying to do this for years in different ways, and my boundaries are much better than they were before, but I do still struggle internally, defending myself against the unfair treatment and reinforced allegations against me, and on bad days question whether I am the person they say I am.
Smeard, I’m sorry to learn that no one would believe you, but it’s something I have heard over and over. My best advice to nice-guy types is to recognize that they have skills that most people would like to have but cannot master. This actually leaves them in a good position to pick and choose, knowing that unlike most people they have all the skills necessary for a great relationship.
But until a nice-guy type recognizes their value and learns how to vet very carefully, people who are not natural givers will pretend they have all these skills and they will not be able to resist taking even when they know they cannot reciprocate. The best partner for a nice-guy type seems to be a nice-girl type and vice versa. But as you say, it does take some “deprogramming” to learn how not to fall for that exciting and attractive personality even when you know that in the long run it’s your partner’s inner character not their outer charisma that will provide you with a long-lasting healthy relationship.
I appreciate the advise. I must admit it feels really great to think of myself as having high level relationship skills. It makes me feel optimistic and inspired to go find that NiceGirl, so thank you.
I am a woman with BPD who has lied for revenge. I am recently diagnosed and my behavior during my last relationship and breakup has brought the BPD out in me, whereas before I had traits but it never affected my life like this. I have had trouble breathing with the anxiety I have felt. I am going to treatment and have committed to not being in a relationship for at least a year. I have hurt people and myself and hopefully the guilt I feel will motivate me to never be this way again. I feel so remorseful and hopeless. It felt so right at the time but now I feel like I am a terrible, insane person.
Thank you for contributing, and best of luck in your recovery.
My ex girl friend has B.P.D.and drugged my drinks with pills of some kind then start trowing my stuff from are room down down the stairs at me then called 911 i was angry at this point and yelled at her but never hit her then the police came arrested me , then she went told people i beat her up , I was told by other people she had bruises on her and split her lip , I am so hurt by this and have these charges to deal with now and a no contact order in place , I need some advice on how to defend against this. or a way to show her illness
Ben, when things get this severe you may need to get legal help. You might also want to talk to a counselor who is familiar with the disorder.
this is probably the most comprehensive series on what would be what i have experienced in my last 2 relationships. i understand how i played into what was happening and i feel like a fool for doing it. I never even knew what NPD was or borderline. I recognized my own traits and actions that made it all possible to follow through with her devaluation and my terminating the relationship before i ended my own life thinking that finally maybe that might make her happy. The way she minimized how I felt and was hurt because I spoke up about anything that she may have done to cause me to hurt was mind boggling. I did not want to be right or prove her wrong, only wanted her to say that she could understand WHY I might feel that way. No compromise or way to make peace from her, never an apology or empathy from her. I had to break it off , I did not want to, everything inside me died that day. I loved her. She said she loved me but did not act that way. I could go on about it, give examples, but I have found that is what she wants. I am in a relationship now with a woman who had a similar past, hoping two wrongs make a right.
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Thanks for the excellent analysis. Is there an effective approach to dealing with the lies?
I’m afraid I have not come up with any techniques to deal with the lying. But that’s a great question, and I will certainly give it some thought.
My 13 yrs of merriage just end, she just too much lying, commiting adultary, no emphaty, her anger is like a bomb, i just cant communicate because i dont know her mood? Gasslighting too. Me and her had 2 daughter, 12yrs old and 7 yrs old, the kids were under my custody, she had no shame, shows up at my church, shows up in the neighbourhood, and all of bpd or npd symptoms are in her and i just know it just last year, 10 month before 13 yrs of merriage. Right now i just cant believe, why she done that, i’m very concern about my kids mental health, what should i do?
Daniel, I’m so sorry to hear about what you have been through. Your children are the priority here. But don’t forget that they are seeing appropriate and loving behavior from you, and this will give them a healthy model and will allow them over time to recognize that their mother’s behavior was not okay. Unfortunately they may need professional help as they grow older sorting this out as well. These behavior patterns are extremely destructive to other members of a family.
Love your blog and workbook. It’s been a real tool and made life better. Long story below but the key questions from the story that I’m struggling with boIl down to:
– How do you balance effective communication and understanding of her underlying bpd trait challenges with not enabling bad behavior or violating your boundaries?
– How do you effectively deal with lying?
– How do you effectively help someone move away from impulsivity?
First- thank you. It’s been super useful to understand the whys for my girlfriend with BPD traits’ behaviors and have strategies that are working well. They have been effective in lowering conflict which has improved communication.
Wanted to ask about two things: lying and impulsive behavior.
My gf had expressed that it was very important for her that I no longer be in touch with the my ex – even though it had been an amicable breakup – that relationship kind of faded- that shifted to a light friendship and we did activities like grab lunch or visit an exhibit. I understood that it triggered insecurities so I have cut off contact as my ex, and blocked her number. while she is a nice person, she is no longer an integral part of my life. Plus I wanted to move forward and build a healthy relationship.
This was about 5 months ago when my gf and I got back together after a brief breakup. The 5 months since then have been great, clear communication and growth on both sides. There is some tension within her because her controlling mother wants us to break up and a few of her friends ‘don’t like me’ because we broke up before and she painted me in a bad light- which in part was merited but perhaps not to the extreme. She picked up on their trust issues. And her black-and-white side of the mind says that her mom and friends will never like me. I used the building trust exercise and it helped get though that devaluation stage once we were getting very close. We talked about her deciding whether she trusted and wanted to be with me in a very open way. Otherwise I would understand. She did and things got smoother.
Before the holidays my gf asked me to do something on her phone and I noticed texts with her ex where he was saying ‘why do you keep changing your mind, you clearly want to meet up, let’s meet up and talk.’ The previous part of the conversation was deleted. This is someone who in the past has tried to hook up with her while we were together and she has expressed that he doesn’t take no for an answer and even tried to push things forward physically but she stopped him. He had been texting her 5 months ago and at that point she claimed that she never responded anymore- that she decided that was best. At that point I told her it would make me comfortable and would be socially acceptable if she blocked him so that he wouldn’t persist. She volunteered that she wasn’t texting with him a few other times since then. By the above failed meetup plan that wasn’t true.
Given the lying about being in touch and potential betrayal of meeting up – and hypocrisy- I was upset. But to be clear headed I took a day to cool off and then spoke with her. Turns out that he would text and text and ‘then eventually she would respond’. But then she would stop. So according to her ‘whenever she was telling me she wasn’t texting it was true because she’d stopped.’ Or so the gaslight story went. She explained that she planned to meet up with him after breaking up because she had planned to breakup with me because the mother and friends pressure was too much. I do remember her dark demeanor from those days. She’d ‘texted him back when she had just decided to break up’. So it ‘wasn’t bad really’. And ‘once she decide not to break up she told him she wasn’t going to meet.’ Side note: She doesn’t know how to be alone- when I broke up with her before she went to him 5 days later but left him right away when we reconciled.
We talked at length with a non judgmental tone – I said I understood that the pressures from her mom were immense and the fact that she didn’t meet with him made me willing to talk it out. She admitted that it was a mistake- it was clearly difficult for her to admit. I expressed that one of my core values was you do not plan to meet up with someone that wants to hook up with you while you are still dating someone. You breakup and then do whatever you want. She acknowledged and agreed.
In the next week she said she’d been thinking about it and that she volunteered unprompted that it was a good idea to block him. At another point she unprompted pointed out that given his past behaviors he wasn’t a good influence in her life and she’s realizing that clearly.
This week I was sending myself some photos that we took using her Facebook messenger and saw that she’d been searching for his profile on the messenger app. Which means 1) she’s searching for him and 2) she didn’t block him- on her phone either as she’d told me she was going to.
Which leads me to my questions:
– I could just just apologize for her and say when times gets tough with the mom and friends issues she gets impulsive- and having him texting her is a way of asserting independence to her self and potentially sabotaging the relationship – kind of a steam valve – she hasn’t actually met up with him as far as I know etc etc
– That said I don’t want to be in a relationship where there are lies and potential betrayal anytime she deals with difficult issues.
– I’m thinking of talking with her and telling her without we should take a break so she can figure stuff out 1) that one of my core values is not to be with someone who has lingering feelings for their ex. because why else stay in touch. That she should go, no judgement, and figure out if that’s what needs to happen. And 2) that another core value is truthfulness and trust.
– Or should I just ignore and think of this as part of her process of getting used to a healthy relationship?
– Or talk about the underlying issues? More trust work between us? Or what?
– This raises a question: How do you balance effective communication and understanding of her underlying bpd trait challenges with not enabling bad behavior or violating your boundaries?
– How do you effectively deal with lying?
– How do you effectively help someone move away from impulsivity?
Thank you so much for everything you do!!
This is a difficult situation because the person you are dating has a fairly strong presentation of the traits of BPD. A person who is lying in a substantial way or who is not able to maintain the more important agreements that we must have in place in any romantic relationship cannot make any real progress using my methods. In other words, if your partner cannot control herself around the basic agreements of fidelity or following boundaries that really any partner must be able to adhere to when directly asked, the techniques I teach won’t be effective in the long run. She would need to instead learn techniques of dialectical behavioral therapy which is a type of program that takes years of dedication to make any lasting change.
My methods are designed for those who have light traits and who are committed to their relationships but who do not engage in the more extreme behaviors that might qualify a person for an actual diagnosis of BPD. Although we cannot say whether or not your partner would qualify for the diagnosis, we could say that she has extreme enough behavior patterns that she may not be capable of sustaining a committed relationship.
You may have to treat this relationship as one where your partner may not be mature enough to control those impulses. It may be helpful to imagine her as someone who has the average level of trust issues where instead of following your explicit boundary requests, she is instead deciding for herself how important your requests are and how far she has to follow them according to her comfort levels. My thoughts on this situation might be different if she was feeling confusion or regret in not following your request or if she admitted to having a difficult time being alone and was experiencing difficulty following your requests. But it sounds like she has a different concept of commitment, a lighter version where she doesn’t have to be honest as long as she feels she is following her own moral boundaries which clearly are much looser than yours.
So in this situation it might be best to see this person as someone who may not be mature enough to be able to abide by the boundaries that every committed relationship must have in place.
Hi, well written descriptions of BPD. I have been researching what is wrong that I am doing to cause my wife not to trust me and why my wife just can’t say sorry for the wrongs or hurts she does. I now sort of understand what could be the problem. I have been in a relationship with my wife for 18 years and have suffered a great deal of abuse from her except physical but any other form of abuse…I have suffered. I think I fall on the nice guy side always trying to look out for the good and how I can make things better in our relationship but all I seem to have done is to cause this extreme resentment and anger. I genuinely don’t understand some of issues she raises and when I say I don’t understand….it is like I am causing a volcano to explode. I am forever walking on top of eggshells and this has become very difficult for me to deal with. She called me all sorts of things selfish, greedy, pig , you name it. She has over a long period threatened with divorce knowing how I would anything to ensure a divorce never happen as I don’t believe in divorce. She has lied about having another boyfriend just to hurt me as she knows how much I hate infidelity. I love her and want to try and save our marriage. I would like to know how do I suggest that she needs help to deal with some of the things that you have spoken about which are happening in our lives. I don’t want to suggest that she is crazy but want help for her and I don’t want to send her off the cliff as she is scared of being crazy
I’m sorry to say that these individuals often reject any opinion of them that could be interpreted as blame. The method that I have developed and that I offer as a workbook for free on my home page gives a partner language that cannot be interpreted as blame that can help with the emotional dysregulation that you are experiencing in her. You might give that method a try.
Another possible way to present the fact that she has a problem is to talk to her about emotional dysregulation. You might need to include the fact that every person struggles with emotional dysregulation including you. There are workbooks for sale on the internet for this problem and there is therapy in some cities that teach people to regulate their emotions. The method taught is called DBT or dialectical behavioral therapy. It is a very easy way to learn the skill-set that your wife is missing that could allow her to learn how to regulate her emotions. You might consider telling her that you feel you need this skill as well. Occasionally when the blame is equally shared, these individuals may be open to trying a method like DBT.